Curse

May 12, 2007, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

lord_shar Quote:
based on personal experience, current drop rates (as of this post) are still ridiculously low.

I agree on this that drops seems to be very low (even when soloing).

Quote:

arcanemacabre Quote:
2) Chestruns, nuff said
3) Greens and Ectos are exempt from loot scaling, so people can solo those all day long
6) Hardmode rare-item farming. Since rares are also exempt, and you get them more often in hard mode, find a good, easy spot and farm away (like the Nebo Terrace undead).
all I can think of for now, but I'm sure there are more reasons.

I guess I just got used to seeing all those drops before the loot scaling update.
I agree on testing builds.
Probably off topic but: On chestruns I still go with as many henchies/heroes as possible cause they can bring a rez or take aggro. Or is there a reason why you would solo chestrun?
I haven't tried solo farming bosses yet in HM. I might just do that and see if they exempted greenies.
I guess I need to think out of the box like you guys/gals

Maybe I might enjoy farming again.

BTW OFF topic: I don't think the game is ruined because of the loot scaling. There are other fun aspects in the game still.

reetkever · May 12, 2007, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amulet of the Myst

I agree on this that drops seems to be very low (even when soloing).

I guess I just got used to seeing all those drops before the loot scaling update.
I agree on testing builds.
Probably off topic but: On chestruns I still go with as many henchies/heroes as possible cause they can bring a rez or take aggro. Or is there a reason why you would solo chestrun?
I haven't tried solo farming bosses yet in HM. I might just do that and see if they exempted greenies.
I guess I need to think out of the box like you guys/gals

Maybe I might enjoy farming again.

BTW OFF topic: I don't think the game is ruined because of the loot scaling. There are other fun aspects in the game still.

For chest run, you need keys. Keys need money and for money you need to solo-farm.
They did exemt greens, but even so, they still only have a 0.001% chance to drop (Same with golds).

The point is that without money, there isn't much to do in this game. Only thing you can do when poor is missions/quests. After doing these for multiple times, that's old. So most people NEED to farm to do cool stuff, cause everything is so expensive and A-Net kills off all our ways of getting some nice cash.

May 12, 2007, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Today 02:30 PM
reetkever Quote:
Only thing you can do when poor is missions/quests. After doing these for multiple times, that's old. So most people NEED to farm to do cool stuff, cause everything is so expensive and A-Net kills off all our ways of getting some nice cash.

I kinda agree that its harder to get cash. And I guess we (or at least I) got used to getting easier gold to get expensiver armour/weapons or to buy skills required to test builds. For some who started playing the game after the loot scaling update I think its a good thing, or at least it wont matter to them.
But for some of us who started playing I guess around Factions/NF. After getting used to a steady flow of cash its kind of demotivating. Specially if the prices of certain items (armour/weapons/minipets) will stay IMO ridiculously high.
Well a positive note is that I am already seeing that prices are dropping.

I guess if they didn't impliment the loot scaling then the prices for certain items wouldn't be tradable within the game.
Can you imagine paying for a mini panda one year from now for 100K+ and 8 stacks of ectos (you can only trade 7 stacks ingame

So they would have to have changed the whole game if not for loot scaling. (just kidding).

reetkever · May 12, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amulet of the Myst

I kinda agree that its harder to get cash. And I guess we (or at least I) got used to getting easier gold to get expensiver armour/weapons or to buy skills required to test builds. For some who started playing the game after the loot scaling update I think its a good thing, or at least it wont matter to them.
But for some of us who started playing I guess around Factions/NF. After getting used to a steady flow of cash its kind of demotivating. Specially if the prices of certain items (armour/weapons/minipets) will stay IMO ridiculously high.
Well a positive note is that I am already seeing that prices are dropping.

I guess if they didn't impliment the loot scaling then the prices for certain items wouldn't be tradable within the game.
Can you imagine paying for a mini panda one year from now for 100K+ and 8 stacks of ectos (you can only trade 7 stacks ingame

So they would have to have changed the whole game if not for loot scaling. (just kidding).

`

Well the high prices being there is a fault on A-Net's side. THEY are the ones making stuff like Miniature Kanaxai/Panda unobtainable for most people.

However, a Panda for 100K and 7 stacks of ecto's would be fine for me, cause I'd have a goal to work for then.

Pandora's box · May 12, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Lots of people complain about grinding. But why do players grind? I think this is about the only game I know where people who are playing 3 months+ are not yet millionaires. And that is nothing to be proud of!

The choices made to balance an economy were wrong from scratch. Droprate should be **MUCH** higher! Playing an hour in an 8-person party should give you at least 2-3 k gold and lots of white items. But no, we have to do it with a crappy 100-200 gold and 3 or 4 mostly useless items dropped. Than take a look at the price of basic stuff like some runes. Everyone likes to max out on Vigor for chr's and heroes. Still wondering why players start to grind??

x stunt x · May 12, 2007, 04:50 PM // 16:50

i hate to say it but sense they did the drop scaling i have noticed less people playing in my guild, alliance, and Friends list. Not sure if its just going on in my guild/alliance or if its happening everywhere, I have already see quiet a few people talking about just starting a group on other games because of the solo Nerf.

x stunt x · May 12, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

The loot scaling has just about killed off the solo farmer, and i have noticed fewer of the older players on anymore and a lot of talk of people just moving on to others games. I know the scaling helps the newer players but at the same time it is driving away the older players. Personally i don't mind being dirt poor on the game but I'm scared that the scaling is going to make a lot of people quit playing and eventually end guild wars.

x stunt x · May 12, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

loot scaling is killing solo farmers!

Avarre · May 12, 2007, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

The point is that without money, there isn't much to do in this game. Only thing you can do when poor is missions/quests.

The only thing you can do while poor is play the game? That's a shame!

Firebaall · May 12, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

lol:

Anet's support team:

reetkever · May 12, 2007, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

The only thing you can do while poor is play the game? That's a shame!

No, it's the opposite. You can only do Quests and Missions when you're poor. All the FUN stuff actually requires cash.

It's like in order to have fun in this game, one NEEDS cash and one NEEDS to grind.

(ohh, and missions/quests are NOT fun after doing them 16 times)

lord_shar · May 12, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

...<SNIP>...

(ohh, and missions/quests are NOT fun after doing them 16 times)

Absolutely agreed. I can't even count how many times I've done the same missions and quests. GW's official storyline doesn't have prepetual replay value.

If anything, all the scaling patch has done is favor the bot farmer. Bots can farm 24/7, no sleep required. This allows them to out-gather any human player by ridiculous margins.

Also, the Diminishing-Returns-by-Revisiting (farming the same area over and over) code is definitely still active based on plenty of eye-witness accounts. It was supposedly removed according to Gaile's previous post, but I'm still experiencing it first hand. Gaile, is there anyway to confirm/deny this from your side?

Loviatar · May 12, 2007, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

No, it's the opposite. You can only do Quests and Missions when you're poor. All the FUN stuff actually requires cash.

It's like in order to have fun in this game, one NEEDS cash and one NEEDS to grind.

(ohh, and missions/quests are NOT fun after doing them 16 times)

the only high cost is show off items which most people cant see (weapons/etc) or fow/high end armor which most of us would not even recognize much less be impressed at seeing.

the game is the missions/quests/exploring/etc.

the farming disease syndrome is not the game it is some aberation caught after playing the game.

the real prpblem are the people who have made similar posts to the following examples.

1. I HAVE FINISHED THE GAME AND DONT PVP ............WHAT DO I DO NOW?

2. I HAVE PLAYED AND FINISHED THE GAME X TIMES SO HELP ME FIND SOME WAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING.

the game has a start, the game itself, and a finish.

if the people dont have the brainpower to do something else after FINISHING THE GAME instead of forcing themselves to play a game that now *bores me to tears* (one poster) that is their fault as Anet never said we promise you endless new content to keep you busy.

take a break until it is fun again as most players wont recognize or even care let alone being *impressed* at your fow/15k/etc armor and going into an outpost spamming *look at my 1000 plat item* join my party is stupid at best

Alas Poor Yorick · May 12, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by x stunt x

The loot scaling has just about killed off the solo farmer, and i have noticed fewer of the older players on anymore and a lot of talk of people just moving on to others games. I know the scaling helps the newer players but at the same time it is driving away the older players. Personally i don't mind being dirt poor on the game but I'm scared that the scaling is going to make a lot of people quit playing and eventually end guild wars.

I agree/disagree. Loot scaling does not help new players at all. the things they need are still the same price they were before. Most crafting materials are still about where they were. Armor still costs the same. Weapons from crafters still cost the same (most new players aren't going to be looking for gold rare skins till much later in the game). And some of the basic minor runes have actually jumped in price because the farmers aren't bringing them in anymore. Meanwhile, the blue and white drops the new players depended on have been nerfed. Loot scaling has hurt both new and old players!

lord_shar · May 12, 2007, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the only high cost is show off items which most people cant see (weapons/etc) or fow/high end armor which most of us would not even recognize much less be impressed at seeing.

When I aquire gear for my characters, it is because I find the item(s) visually appealing. If others happen to notice the items, that's fine, but ultimately I'm buying gear for my own enrichment/entertainment and not others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the game is the missions/quests/exploring/etc.

the farming disease syndrome is not the game it is some aberation caught after playing the game.

...<SNIP>...

the game has a start, the game itself, and a finish.

The above points apply only to linear storylines. This is perfectly fine for movies and books, but RPG-style games are supposed to be open-ended, entertaining players until they choose move on to other activities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if the people dont have the brainpower to do something else after FINISHING THE GAME instead of forcing themselves to play a game that now *bores me to tears* (one poster) that is their fault as Anet never said we promise you endless new content to keep you busy.

take a break until it is fun again as most players wont recognize or even care let alone being *impressed* at your fow/15k/etc armor and going into an outpost spamming *look at my 1000 plat item* join my party is stupid at best

Games are supposed to be fun and entertaining. So long as players can derive entertainment from the game, then that game is working as designed. The problem is that ANET is contantly choosing to downgrade instead of upgrade their flagship title, much to the player community's chagrin.

In the end, I still find GW fun to play, but the recent changes "annoying" to say the least...

reetkever · May 12, 2007, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the only high cost is show off items which most people cant see (weapons/etc) or fow/high end armor which most of us would not even recognize much less be impressed at seeing.

the game is the missions/quests/exploring/etc.

the farming disease syndrome is not the game it is some aberation caught after playing the game.

the real prpblem are the people who have made similar posts to the following examples.

1. I HAVE FINISHED THE GAME AND DONT PVP ............WHAT DO I DO NOW?

2. I HAVE PLAYED AND FINISHED THE GAME X TIMES SO HELP ME FIND SOME WAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING.

the game has a start, the game itself, and a finish.

if the people dont have the brainpower to do something else after FINISHING THE GAME instead of forcing themselves to play a game that now *bores me to tears* (one poster) that is their fault as Anet never said we promise you endless new content to keep you busy.

take a break until it is fun again as most players wont recognize or even care let alone being *impressed* at your fow/15k/etc armor and going into an outpost spamming *look at my 1000 plat item* join my party is stupid at best

It depends what you see as high cost. I now am totally broken, and 1K is ALOT for me. If I want to buy a single skill, I gotta kill monsters for 3 hours.

If I want to do cool stuff I most of the time need new builds/weapons, and for that, I just don;t have money.

Also, stuff like chest runs, alcohol, sugary items - most of the title-based items are WAY too expensive.

Content doesn't have to be new, and the content WAS there. A few months back before the release of Nightfall, everything was good and well. Prices were low (6,5K for 1 ecto, even less than now), and people had easy ways of obtaining cash, making it possible to buy keys, skills, greens for special builds, new armor etc. There was LOTS to do, and you were free to do it as well.

After Nightfall came out, we were forced into the storyline more and more with each update. A-Net is really narrowing the game. Sure, we can still work on titles, chest run, etc, but only if we've got cash.

And other stuff besides the storyline is ALSO the game. If only the storyline was the game, it'd be a VERY, VERY short, small, repetetive and simple game. (Ohh wait, without cash, it the game IS that.)

Age · May 12, 2007, 09:57 PM // 21:57

What it all comes down to is they Arenanet should never have brought in Hard Mode in the first place.The game was fine as it was as most would just be working on titles they still want to finesh before EoTN comes out.I would of just left the farmers alone they all new there was a code and new how many hours they could farm one spot and move on or take break.I don't and will say Hard Mode was never needed all it does it but more confusion in the game.

B Ephekt · May 12, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

well with 2 yrs of hitting 1,2,3,4 you should be an expert at PvP then cause thats what mostly is PvP. I quit PvP abut 19 months or so for that very reason. Hell i even considered buying a monkey to farm PvP for me.

Don't play Heroes Ascent. -_-

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Try clearing Snake Dance without evading the Heretics or dying even once.

That's harder than PvP

Off the top of my head I'd say an assassin with the attack chain of your choice, Shadow Form, Shadow of Haste, Dash and a self heal. I'm sure you'll try to say it's cookie cutter or some other such nonsense, but it accomplishes the challenge you put forth.... albeit very slowly.

Yeah, that's harder than making top 50 with a balanced buld, or actually beating things that can out think and out play you.

Quote:

where you and all the other players use the exact same builds over and over and over and over again. And when they're nerfed, a new cookie-cutter build comes and that gets used over and over and over again.

Creativity doesn't win matches, out playing your opponent does.

Anyway, my point was not to rehash any pve vs. pvp arguments, it was to point out the ridiculous nature of certain poster's comments. Saying that skilled players are being punished is asinine. First, the majority of players players are bad at the game, second most farming builds come from these forums or simply transplanting a common build to a new area, third the skilled pvers who do exist think up new builds and new locations to get around the proclaimed drying up of hard mode.

Also, thirty characters? Jesus. No wonder that guy has money issues. -_-

reetkever · May 13, 2007, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Ephekt

Don't play Heroes Ascent. -_-
Off the top of my head I'd say an assassin with the attack chain of your choice, Shadow Form, Shadow of Haste, Dash and a self heal. I'm sure you'll try to say it's cookie cutter or some other such nonsense, but it accomplishes the challenge you put forth.... albeit very slowly.

Yeah, that's harder than making top 50 with a balanced buld, or actually beating things that can out think and out play you.

Creativity doesn't win matches, out playing your opponent does.

Anyway, my point was not to rehash any pve vs. pvp arguments, it was to point out the ridiculous nature of certain poster's comments. Saying that skilled players are being punished is asinine. First, the majority of players players are bad at the game, second most farming builds come from these forums or simply transplanting a common build to a new area, third the skilled pvers who do exist think up new builds and new locations to get around the proclaimed drying up of hard mode.

Also, thirty characters? Jesus. No wonder that guy has money issues. -_-

So using the same skills in PvE with farming is a bad thing, while doing it in PvP is okay? Right... I wasn't talking about tournaments or something like that, either. I was talking about stuff like IWAY, crip rangers, spikers, etc.

Also, you can't get 'around' the loot scaling. It's everywhere now, wether you kill smites in UW or Hulking Stone Elementals in Ascalon, you only get 1/8th of the drops. Builds weren't a problem, I could solo about 90% of Tyria.

(Hmmm actually not that impressive how 60% of tyria isn't even lvl 20 :P)

Also, it's not the 'skilled' people who get punished, it's all people. Except for the people who are still in the missioning/questing fase of the game.

And what's wrong with taking builds from forums? It shouldn't matter how 'original' someone is when it comes to making cash. I don't do stuff original at work either, I just do it using the most efficient way.

Oh and btw, 30 characters isn't that much, if you have 2 accounts and often delete/remake characters.

Loviatar · May 13, 2007, 01:21 AM // 01:21

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Also, you can't get 'around' the loot scaling. It's everywhere now, wether you kill smites in UW or Hulking Stone Elementals in Ascalon, you only get 1/8th of the drops.

you still get more than a straight 1/8 ask Gaile to post what she said earlier about the general formula as i dont have the time to look it up.

you are still getting your fair share and a bit extra not shorted.

you say your broke?

you say it takes hours to farm enough for a single skill?

on another thread or this one i posted my results of a quick random low level vermin run in the lowlands and someone else said they had similar rsults.

about 2.5 plat per hour not counting dyes (one silver) or the value from fur squares traded from char hides.

gold and junk off the ground with no salvage kits and merch when the inventory was full.

that is 5 skill points an hour not counting value of the dyes/furs/steel (2 items i expert salvaged for steel got 1 steel and 1 iron ingot)